MR. AUSTIN STACK: With your permission I wish to raise one small point; the front public bench was reserved for the members of the Standing Committee of Sinn Féin; a member of the Standing Committee who came in and took his seat there a while ago was ejected to make room for a person who is not a member of the Standing Committee; and the member, the gentleman who was ejected from his seat, has left his seat under protest. I think the seat should be vacated and he should be invited in.
THE SPEAKER: Give instructions to the officer in charge of the door.
MR. STACK: Call in Mr. Little.
MR. HARRY BOLAND: Immediately following my speech to-day my colleague, Mr. MacGrath, thought fit to bring a personal conversation into the debate; and in order to clear my record I will take this opportunity to state that I was the servant of this Government, representing it in America, and when I was recalled to Ireland on the peace discussion I was informed by the President that the very minimum would be external association. I was instructed to go back to America with this definite objective in view; and I made whatever provision was possible, so that in the event of Ireland's minimum being accepted we would have no trouble from our friends in America. Now, with that in view, on the Tuesday night on which the Treaty was signed in London I stepped off the train at Washington, and when I read that the Treaty had been signed I understood that the men who went to negotiate for Ireland had followed out the instructions of their Cabinet, and that the minimum [335] had been achieved. I thereupon issued a statement in which I said that Ireland had come within the comity of nations. On the following morning, Wednesday morning, the Treaty ap-appeared in the American Press; and when I read the terms of the Treaty I was opposed to it. On the following Thursday night Mr. Stephen O'Mara, the fiscal agent to this Government, and myself attended a meeting in Washington where invitations had been sent out to wealthy Americans inviting them to subscribe to a million dollar Bond Drive for the Republic; and the men turned up, and we cancelled the Bond Drive, and they turned the meeting into a meeting of rejoicings. Senators were present and they sang hallelujahs; and I, myself, spoke against that Treaty. On the following morning my speech was reported in the Manchester Guardian because their representative in America was among the invited guests; that was on record five hours before President de Valera came out against the Treaty. Apart from the propriety of introducing a private conversation I find it necessary to make a personal explanation; I certainly hope we won't reproduce any more private conversations.
MR. M. COLLINS: You cannot stand them, Harry, you stood for the Treaty first. (“Order, order.”)
MR. HARRY BOLAND: No! and you know it, Michael (laughter).
MR. ARTHUR GRIFFITH: I cannot accept the invitation of the Minister of Defence to dishonour my signature and become immortalised in Irish history. I have signed this Treaty; and the man or nation that dishonours its signature is dishonoured for ever; no man who signed that Treaty can dishonour his signature without dishonouring himself and the nation (applause). As to what the Minister of Defence said about myself I have nothing to say; it may be that I was unknown in public life before 1916; and it may be that I am only known in public life since through the Minister of Defence. That is not a matter I am interested in. There is one thing I want to say; a suggestion was made that my colleagues and myself are going to be immortalised if I take a certain course—to dishonour my signature and the nation. It was said that I was a weak man in the negotiations in London, and that I and that my colleague and friend, Michael Collins, held back our conversations with the English Ministers and gave something away. We were asked why we went to see these Ministers without the full body of the plenipotentiaries? For the same reason that President de Valera met Lloyd George alone when he went to London; and because there are certian things that are better discussed by two or three men than by eighteen men; and we both agreed on that. One other reference will I make to what the Minister of Defence has said; he spoke of Michael Collins; he referred to what I said about Michael Collins —that he was the man who won the war. I said it, and I say it again; he was the man that made the situation; he was the man, and nobody knows better than I do how, during a year and a half he worked from six in the morning until two next morning. He was the man whose matchless energy, whose indomitable will carried Ireland through the terrible crisis (applause); and though I have not now, and never had, an ambition about either political affairs or history, if my name is to go down in history I want it associated with the name of Michael Collins (applause). Michael Collins was the man who fought the Black-and-Tan terror for twelve months, until England was forced to offer terms (cheers). That is all I have to say on that subject. Now, we have been in London as plenipotentiaries, and when we were going across it was stated to us that there might be scape-goats, and I said I was prepared to be a scapegoat if one per cent. more could be got for the Irish nation. We came back. We thought, at all events, we had done something that was very good for the Irish nation. We were indicted here from the day we came back; we were told that we let down the Republic; and the Irish people were led to believe that we had gone there with a mandate to get a Republic and nothing but a Republic, and that we had violated that mandate. Sir, before I went to London I said at a Cabinet meeting—when every member of the Cabinet was there—that: “If I go to London I can't get a Republic; I will try for a Republic, but I can't bring it back.” And we tried for a Republic, though I knew we could not get it. One Deputy here said yesterday that we were guilty of treason against [336] the Republic. Well, if we were guilty of treason against the Republic let us be tried for treason. I, at all events, have nothing on my conscience; what I did, I did for the best interests of Ireland; I believed I was doing right; I believe now I did right, and I would do the same thing again (cheers). Now, we have been told, and we were told after we came back, that we were in violent conflict with what the Irish people had expressed in the three elections; very well. The documents and letters that passed between our President and the Premier of England are all before the public; in which one of them was a demand made for the recognition of the Irish Republic as a condition before we went to London? If we were to get a Republic, and nothing but a Republic, the thing could have been dismissed in six lines by writing to the Premier of England and telling him that we would meet him on the condition that he recognised the Republic. We were sent to make some compromise, bargain or arrangement; we made an arrangement; the arrangement we made is not satisfactory to many people. Let them criticise on that point, but do not let them say that we were sent to get one thing and that we got something else. We got a different type of arrangement from that which many wished; but when they charge us or insinuate that we went there with a mandate to demand a Republic, and nothing but a Republic, then they are maligning us; if we got that mandate we would have finished up in five minutes in Downing Street. Now, after the General Election, at a meeting of the Dáil in August last, President de Valera made a speech which covered the ground on which we went there; he said, speaking on the General Election: “I don't take it that the answer was for a form of Republican Government as such, because we are not Republican doctrinaires as such; but it was for Irish freedom and Irish independence.” (Hear, hear). We went there to London, not as Republican doctrinaires, but looking for the substance of freedom and independence. If you think what we brought back is not the substance of independence that is a legitimate ground for attack upon us, but to attack us on the ground that we went there to get a Republic is to attack us on false and lying grounds; and some of those who criticise on that ground know perfectly well the conditions under which we went. “We are ready,” said President de Valera—“We are ready,” he said—“to leave the whole question between Ireland and England to external arbitration.” What did that mean? Need I comment on it? Is that saying you will have a Republic and nothing but a Republic. Is not that that America or any other country might decide between us whether we would have a Republic or not?
PRESIDENT DE VALERA: By justice.
MR. GRIFFITH: In another letter he said: “We have no conditions to impose, no claim to advance but one—that we are to be free from aggression” I hold that what we brought back from England frees us from agression. It gives us the power to mould our own life, and it frees us from the only permanent form of aggression we can have—the occupation of Ireland by the army of another country. I have listened here for days to discussions on the oath. If you are going to have a form of association with the British Empire, call it what you will, you must have an oath; and such an oath was suggested and put before us and not rejected, and put before the plenipotentiaries when going back to London. The difference between these two oaths is the difference in the terms. I am not going to speak in terms of theology or terms of law about them; we have had quite a considerable discussion on that point; but what I am going to speak about is this: that in this assembly there are men who have taken oath after oath to the King of England; and I noticed that these men applauded loudly when insulting or slighting references were made to the young soldiers here on account of the oath. If a man considers an oath such a momentous thing, what did these gentlemen who took the oath to the King of England— what, I ask, has become of their oath at the present time? I have an arrangement of oaths here, seven different oaths taken by different members of this assembly to the King of England. These were the gentlemen who unsheathed their swords against the liberties of the people —these gentlemen sat on English benches —all of whom are going to vote against this Treaty because they will not take the oath. Ah! this hypocrisy that is going [337] to involve the lives of gallant and brave men is damnable—the hypocrisy of the men who hung their flags out when the King of England came to Ireland, the men who received him, the men who fought in his army, the men who sat on his benches, the men who try to cut down the brave young men of Ireland—this is damnable hypocrisy. When we came back with this Treaty that has been called by many names—we have heard a selection of adjectives for that Treaty that have not been parallelled since the days of Biddy Moriarity (laughter)—when we came back with that Treaty there was, at least, one thing that might have been done. Our colleagues in the Dáil who disagreed with us might have met and discussed that Treaty on its merits. The President and myself made an appeal that no personalities be indulged in. I have been sitting here for days, and the more I sat here the more I wondered at the smallness of my imagination that I had never been able to realise the heights of my own villainy (laughter). Well, that Treaty could have been discussed on its merits; it could have been dealt with without any reference as to whether the men who brought it were honourable or dishonourable men—call us what you like. You say we are dishonourable men; this does not affect the fact of the Treaty which has been discussed on the basis of the failure, at least, of the plenipotentiaries, and not discussed on what was in it. It has been discussed in the way that Carlyle once described—and I have thought of this many times while listening to the criticism of the Treaty—he describes the fly that crawled along the front of the Cologne Cathedral and communicated to all the other flies what a horribly rough surface it was, because the fly was unable to see the edifice. Now, as to that Treaty, an effort has been made to put us in the position of saying that this Treaty is an ideal thing; an effort has been made to put us into a false position. That Treaty is not an ideal thing; it has faults. I could draw up a Treaty— any of us could draw up a Treaty which would be more satisfactory to the Irish people; we could “call spirits from the vasty deep,” but will they come when you call them? We have a Treaty signed by the heads of the British Government; we have nothing signed against it. I could draw up a much better Treaty myself, one that would suit myself; but it is not going to be passed. We are, therefore, face to face with a practical situation. Does this Treaty give away the interests and the honour of Ireland? I say it does not. I say it serves the interests of Ireland; it is not dishonourable to Ireland. It is not an ideal thing; it could be better. It has no more finality than that we are the final generation on the face of the earth (applause). No man is going, as was quoted here—I have used it all my life— “no man can set bounds to the march of a nation.” But we here can accept that Treaty, and deal with it in good faith with the English people, and through the files of events reach, if we desire it, any further status that we desire or require after. Who is going to say what the world is to be like in ten years hence? We can make peace on the basis of that Treaty; it does not for ever bind us not to ask for any more. England is going beyond where she is at present; all nations are going beyond where they are at present; and in the meantime we can move on in comfort and peace to the ultimate goal. This Treaty gives the Irish people what they have not had for centuries; it gives them a foothold in their own country; it gives them solid ground on which to stand; and Ireland has been a quaking bog for three hundred years, where there was no foothold for the Irish people. Well, reject this Treaty; throw Ireland back into what she was before this Treaty came—I am not a prophet, though I have listened to many prophets here, and I can't argue with prophets; but I know where Ireland was twenty or thirty years ago, I know where Ireland was when there was only a few dozen of us up in Dublin trying to keep the national ideal alive, not trying to keep it alive, because the Irish people never deserted it, but a few of us who had faith in our people and faith in our country, stood by her—you are going to throw Ireland back to that; to dishearten the men who made the fight, and to let back into Irish politics the timeservers and men who let down Ireland before and who will, through their weakness, if not through dishonesty, let down Ireland again. You can take this Treaty and make it the basis of an Irish Ireland. You can reject this Treaty and you can throw Ireland back into where she was years ago, into where she was before —well I do not like to speak about the [338] dead—before the sacrifice that the dead men have made raised her up; the men who died for the last four or five years made this Treaty possible; without them it could not have been done. You are going to give away the fruits of their sacrifices, and to condemn the other young men of Ireland to go out on a fruitless struggle. Certain disclosures have been made here about what happened at Cabinet meetings; well, there was a certain Cabinet meeting at which I asked a question as to what the alternative was as nobody held that we could, by military forces, drive the English out of Ireland—I would not refer to this except that it was already referred to this evening, and part of the conversation was reported—and I was told: “No! This generation might go down, but the next generation might do something or other.” Is there to be no living Irish nation? Is the Irish nation to be the dead past or the prophetic future? Have we any duty to the present generation? I say we have. I say it is the task of political leadership, and statesmanship, or whatever you like to call it, to adopt the weapons and circumstances of this time to achieve the best possible result for the country while keeping the honour of the country safe; and I say if leadership does not devote itself to that task it is not leadership. We have a duty to our country, and our country are the living people of Ireland; we have a duty to our people; we have a duty at least, so far as our judgment goes, not to lead them astray, not to tell them something will happen “if you do this”—when you know they cannot do it—in order to save our faces at the expense of our countrymen's blood (hear, hear). I have preached this Sinn Féin doctrine in years past; at that time the leadership of Ireland was in the hands of the Parliamentary Party; I felt the doctrine I preached was the right one; but I felt also a duty to the nation in that if anything could be got through these leaders I thought it was not my right to obstruct the way. In 1912, when the late Home Rule Act came in, I had a certain support in the country; I could have embarrassed Mr. Redmond if I wished; but I could not have effected any good for the country by so doing, because the country was overwhelmingly against us; and I said to my colleagues in Sinn Féin: “The country has declared for that thing; it is not what we want; but we have no right to stand in the way of the country when we are not able to get them better.” We of Sinn Féin stood down; and we tried to help Mr. Redmond to get his Home Rule measure. He got it. It was not our duty to obstruct. If he and his party failed to get it they failed to get it, and the failure did not lie with us. I say to-day that any man or body of men that obstructs what the nation wishes, or what the nation desires, no matter though they might think themselves right, no matter though they were right, are culpable against the nation unless they can show as quick and as good as way. I can see no better way than this Treaty; no better way for the Irish people. If the Irish people are to have an alternative let the alternative be put down straight before them. Now, many questions were raised, many questions were asked me or referred to me; one by Madame Markievicz, who was perturbed over the letter I wrote about the Southern Unionists; she drew from that letter the idea that I was going to treat them as a privileged class; she wanted to know why I met these men. I met them because they are my countrymen (applause); and because, if we are to have an Irish nation, we want to start with fair play for all sections and with understandings between all sections (applause). I would meet to-morrow on that basis the Ulster Unionists, to seek to get them to join in the Irish nation (hear, hear). I met these gentlemen and I promised them fair play; and so far as I am concerned they will have fair play (applause). I met them in the same spirit that the President met them, when he invited them to meet him at the Mansion House, because they are members of the Irish nation, and their lives and fortunes are as much at stake in the settlement of the Irish question as are our own and those of the people who are supporting us. If we are to start as an Irish nation we want to start on these lines, obliterating all that kept us apart before. We are to have different parties in the Irish nation; we do not want these parties ranged on the lines of pro-English versus pro-Irishism; we want them ranged on national lines, and the person who thinks that you can make an Irish nation, and make it successfully function, with eight hundred thousand of our countrymen in the North up against us, and four hundred thousand of our countrymen here in the South [339] opposed to us, is living in a Fool's Paradise. You want every Irishman in this Irish nation; you want all of them, and the way we are going to get them is to ensure them that they are to have absolute justice and absolute fair play in the Irish nation (applause). Now, I might go into many things. I do not wish to go into things that would arouse any personal contention; I will merely go into certain statements about another document, Document 2—the Minister of Defence gave a description of another alternative doctrine—well, all I can say is: these proposals, so far as they differ from what we signed, were put up by us —they did not emanate from us—we put them forward and they were turned down; we put them up again and they were turned down absolutely. The alternative proposal was simply to put up a third time what had been turned down twice. But it appears that from these alternative proposals some extraordinary measure of greater freedom accrues to Ireland than from the Treaty; that Ireland, somehow, is not to connect with the British Commonwealth of Nations; that Ireland is outside it; that it is not a question of Dominion status. Well, here they are: “That for purposes of common concern Ireland shall be associated with the States of the British Commonwealth, viz., the Kingdom of Great Britain, the Dominion of Canada, the Commonwealth of Australia, the Dominion of New Zealand, and the Union of South Africa.” If that is not a claim for Dominion status I do not know what the meaning of words is. Here is the next paragraph: “The rights, status and privileges of Ireland shall be in no respect less than those enjoyed by the component States of the British Commonwealth.” The next paragraph says: “That the matters of common concern shall include defence, peace and war, political treaties, and all matters now treated as of common concern amongst the States of the British Commonwealth and that in these matters there shall be between Ireland and the States of the British Commonwealth such concerted action founded on consultation as the several Governments may determine.” We are outside the British Empire according to this explanation in this document, but we happen to be inside it for peace, war, defence, treaties, and for all vital concerns. Again: “That in virtue of this Association of Ireland with the States of the British Commonwealth, citizens of Ireland in any of these States shall not be subject to any disabilities which a citizen of one of the component States of the British Commonwealth would not be subject to and reciprocally for citizens of these States in Ireland.” I have heard about common citizenship; what is that? Reciprocal rights? Is that over a change of words? And then we have this: “That for purposes of the association Ireland shall recognise. His Britannic Majesty as head of the association.”
PRESIDENT DE VALERA: Why did Lloyd George turn it down?
MR. CATHAL BRUGHA: It is not allegiance.
MR. GRIFFITH: Is that a Republic or is it not? I say it is not a Republic. Is that allegiance or is it not?
MR. MACGARRY: That's a Constitutional Republic (laughter).
MR. CATHAL BRUGHA: That's a Republic.
MR. GRIFFITH: There is a little item left out of that which we were empowered to put up in London—an annual payment to the King of England. The Irish people have been told that we let down the Republic; and that that document is a Republic. I say that is not a Republic. You said you were elected for a Republic; were you elected for that document? Well, that document is the question between us and our colleagues on the opposite side. Now, whatever the difference is between us this thing is too grave for the Irish people to have them befogged by words. If they are going to be asked to go out and put their lives and fortunes in danger; and lose their lives; and again go through what they have already gone through; let them know that what they are going out for is the recognition of His Britannic Majesty—for a payment to His Britannic Majesty—and for association.
PRESIDENT DE VALERA: There is no oath.
MR. GRIFFITH: The document is there. It is on the Cabinet records. (Cries of “No! no!”) No! you kept it out of that record—out of that document.
PRESIDENT DE VALERA : I have been prevented by the Minister for Foreign Affairs bringing forward my amendment. The people in this assembly do not understand what is contained in the Treaty. We have got no opportunity.
MR. GRIFFITH: If the people in this assembly do not understand what is in the document they are not fit to be representatives of the people of Ireland (applause). Now, the Irish people are going to know, so far as I am concerned, what is the difference. I belong to the Irish people; I have worked for them because they are flesh of my flesh and bone of my bone (cheers); I have never deceived them, at all events, whatever I have done; I may have misled them or given them bad advice; but I have never concealed from them anything that is vital to their interests. It is vital for them to know what we are up against and not to be misled and not to believe that we, plenipotentiaries, went away with a mandate for the Republic and came back with something else. I have heard in this assembly statements about the people of Ireland. The people of Ireland sent us here—we have no right and no authority except what we derive from the people of Ireland—we are here because the people of Ireland elected us, and our only right to speak is to seek what they want. I am told that the people of Ireland elected us to get a Republic. They elected us in 1918 to get rid of the Parliamentary Party; they elected us in 1921 as a gesture, a proper gesture of defiance to the Black-and-Tans: they elected us, not as doctrinaire Republicans, but as men looking for freedom and independence. When we agreed to enter into negotiations with England with the object of producing a Treaty we were bound, I hold, to respect whatever the Irish people—the people of Ireland —thought of that Treaty. I have heard one Deputy saying here that it does not matter what his constituents say. I tell him it does. If representative government is going to remain on the earth, then a representative must voice the opinion of his constituents; if his conscience will not let him do that he has only one way out and that is to resign and refuse to misrepresent them; but that men who know their constituents want this Treaty should come here and tell us that, by virtue of the vote they derive from these constituents, they are going to vote against this Treaty that is the negation of all democratic right; it is the negation of all freedom. You are doing what Castlereagh and Pitt did in 1800; you are doing what these two men did when they refused to let the Irish Parliament dissolve on the question of the Union, and to allow the people to be consulted. You are trying to reject this Treaty without allowing the Irish people to say whether they want it or not—the people whose lives and fortunes are involved.
PRESIDENT DE VALERA: No! no!
MR. GRIFFITH: You will kill Dáil Eireann when you do that (“No! no!”). You will remove from Dáil Eireann every vestige of moral authority, and they will no longer represent the people of Ireland. It will be a junta dictating to the people of Ireland, and the people of Ireland will deal with it. When our President was in America he honoured the memory of Abraham Lincoln; and Abraham Lincoln was one of the greatest men of the last century—he was one of the men who upheld the rights of the people—and Abraham Lincoln's words are words I recommend to you now. When Abraham Lincoln was elected as representative of the American people he said: “If elected, I shall consider the whole people of Sagamon”—the constituency he represented—“my constituents, as well those who oppose me as those who support me. While acting as their representative I shall be governed by their will on all such subjects on which I have the means of knowing what that will is” (applause). You know what the will of the Irish people is (cries of “No!” and “Yes!”). There is no man here who would go down to his constituency and stand on a platform before his people and say he is against this Treaty.
MR. SEAN T. O'KELLY: I would do it; and will, and so will others.
SEVERAL DEPUTIES: We are prepared to do it.
MR. GRIFFITH: They had an opportunity during the recess; I have not read of any of those who stood up now having gone before their constituents.
MR. CATHAL BRUGHA: There was an undertaking we were not to do it.
[341] MR. FRANK FAHY: We were forbidden by an undertaking with Mr. Griffith.
MR. GRIFFITH: Therefore you did not do it. You may interrupt me as much as you please, but there is no power in the junta to intimdiate me. The people of Ireland are, you know— every one of you—ninety-eight per cent. for this Treaty (“No! no!” and “Yes! yes!”). Now, everyone of you knows that; they have told you to vote for it.
MADAME MARKIEVICZ: They did not tell me. They told me to vote against it.
MR. GRIFFITH: Your constituents told you to vote for this Treaty. The Irish people will not be deceived. They know. They have made their voice heard. Some of you will try to muzzle it; but that voice will be heard, and it will pierce through. The most contemptible references I ever heard made to the people of Ireland have been made in this Dáil; I have heard people in this Dáil say that if the people of Ireland had been able in 1921 to accept the Southern Parliament and get rid of Black-and-Tannery they would have done so. Now, I say that is the falsest libel ever uttered on the people of Ireland; the people of Ireland stood, throughout, against that terror, and against the terrorism which would seek to suppress their nation; they will stand again (applause). But they are not going to stand for a fight against what gives them the substance of freedom. If an attempt be made to mislead the Irish people on this question a Deputy here said something about me last night, and about treason. But I tell you the people who commit treason are the people who try to prevent the Irish people, by force or otherwise, from expressing their opinion (hear, hear). Distrust the people, muzzle the people, where then is gone self-determination for the people? Where is gone the platform on which we were elected to this Dáil? (hear, hear). Ah! democracy is, to some minds, very good in theory when democracy fits in with their own ideas; but when democracy bends the reins contrary to their own ideas they get back into a casuistic vein. Now, this country is going to be governed by the Irish people or by the English Government. I am equally opposed to my countrymen being governed by any body of men who flout their wishes and opinions as I am opposed to their being governed by Dublin Castle. We have heard of usurpation. The usurpation that would set itself up against the will of the Irish people is as great a usurpation as Dublin Castle and, so far as I am concerned, my voice and power will be used against that usurpation. You have heard expressions in this Dáil that were rather unfortunate, perhaps. We have representatives in different countries—I happen to be Minister of Foreign Affairs—two of these representatives, immediately this Treaty was signed, started out on their own behalf and made public statements about the Treaty; they did not communicate with me; they thought it right that they should publicly state their views before either the Dáil Cabinet or the Dáil had the power to consider it. They have also represented that the opinion of the world was with them against that Treaty; I say the opinion of the world is that this Treaty constitutes a victory for Ireland; and while I am Minister for Foreign Affairs—perhaps I may not be there much longer—I take the liberty, since these gentlemen took it on themselves to attempt to jump the decision of the Dáil, to read the views of another of our representatives. He may, of course, be dismissed, but he has told me he does not mind; he is a man who has done more for us on the Continent than any other man—Captain MacWhite of the French Army, now representing us in Geneva——
MR. SEAN T. O'KELLY: When was he made a Captain? He is a Sergeant-Major in the French Army.
MR. GRIFFITH: Mr. MacWhite is our representative in Geneva. He wrote me a letter on this subject and he told me I might use it if I wished. In this letter he says: “To refuse to ratify the document which you brought back from London would be to put a millstone on the neck of posterity, and to condemn unborn generations to perpetual slavery and poverty. To pretend that we could again revive the sympathies which were so ardently expressed in favour of the Irish cause during the past few years throughout the whole civilised world is nothing less than a monstrous imposition on the credulity of the Irish people. All the sympathisers which we had in France —and they were legion—look upon the [342] opposition to the Treaty as nothing less than insanity. Those French newspapers which, through thick and thin, fought the battle for Irish freedom believe that in wringing such a Treaty from the powerful British Empire you achieved the inachievable. In Italy our most enthusiastic supporters—and in no other part of the world was there so much popular enthusiasm behind our cause— are of the opinion that we have won a magnificent victory, and there deception will be all the greater if we do not exploit the victory as any sane people should. Amongst our friends in every other country in Europe the same opinion prevails. Only a few days ago I read of a society at Zurich ‘Pro Irelande,’ whose object was the advocation of Irish liberties, being dissolved as the raison d'être for its existence had disappeared. Should Ireland, through the fault of her elected representatives, revert to disorder and chaos, then it will be said again—with some foundation this time—that we are unfit for freedom and that we handsomely deserve whatever fate England may reserve for us in the future. The Treaty admits Ireland to membership of the League of Nations. In order to give that document its true international character I do not see any reason why it should not be submitted to the League once Ireland's membership is officially recognised. The Constitution of the League requires that all Treaties entered into by its members or between one of its members and an outsider should be notified to it. Of course England may protest that the Irish Free State did not exist until after the ratification of this Treaty, but once ratified she cannot any longer pretend that is not an international instrument. In future any modification of that document should likewise be submitted to the League and its intervention could be solicited for the regulation of disputes which are not specifically reserved under the articles of the Treaty.” I quote that simply to correct the idea that some of our representatives abroad gave as to the Treaty, that it was their view was held by the European nations. Now, you have heard all that might be said against this Treaty; you have heard even that it is not a Treaty at all. You have been spoken to as if you had a Republican Government functioning all through Ireland, and that you were asked to give up this Government and functioning Republic for this Treaty. You all know here that, instead of governing through Ireland, the most we could do was to hold, and to barely hold, the position we were in. I heard it said in this assembly that we had driven the British Army into the sea: but I walked down O'Connell Street and I saw them there in hundreds afterwards. What is the use of so deceiving ourselves? The British Army into the sea; but I walked country; and the British Army can be got out of this country to-morrow by the ratification of this Treaty; those who vote against it are giving a vote to keep the British Army in Ireland. If you expect that when you reject this Treaty you will drive the British Army out, then you are even more credulous than I believed you to be all the time (laughter). You have got to give the Irish people something substantial if you reject this Treaty; you have got to tell them where you are going to lead them. But you are not leading them anywhere; you have no objective. You have as I was told—as one very prominent man told us—you have been told that this generation is going to die but that the next generation will get something; that is not sanity; that is not politics; that is not statesmanship. Any of those who come and tell the Irish people: “Let this present generation immolate itself and, please God, the next generation will get something,” are not talking in the voice of sanity. This generation in Ireland; and this generation has got the right to live for itself as past generations had the right; and future generations will have the right to live for themselves. We, as I said, have been put into the position of defending this Treaty, of making this Treaty appear as if it were a bigger thing than it is; the attacks on us have been designed to force us into the position of saying that this Treaty is an ideal Treaty. Well, it is not. It is the utmost Ireland can get; and it is a Treaty Ireland can honourably accept; it gives us a way of working up to our fullest development. We speak here—some of us speak here—as if there were no Irish people outside of these doors as if there were no economic questions; as if there were not tens of thousands of unemployed; as if there were not tens of thousands of struggling farmers and of labouring people through the country; as if we could go on indefinitely making [343] this kind of fight against England. I tell you what is going to happen to you if you reject this Treaty. The Irish people are going to sweep you out as incompetent. We have got to deal with the people; we have got to believe that we are not superiors; we have got to remember that they are our flesh and blood; we have got to remember that we are not sitting at a table playing chess with Lloyd George. It is our countrymen and country women whose lives and fortunes we are dealing with. As John Mitchell said: “One Irish peasant's life is as dear and as sacred to us as any other man's life in the country is, be he who he may.” We want to see this country placed on its feet; we want to put the English tax-gatherer out of the country; we want to hold our ports and harbours and commerce; and we want to have the right and power to educate our people as they ought to be educated. We have got all this in the Treaty. Reject the Treaty and what have you got? A few years ago I found, when I saw the misery and degradation and poverty of my country—when I saw her name forgotten in Europe—I found that the cause of all that was the infamous Act of Union. From the day that Act was passed Ireland became a chaos. In the one hundred and twenty years since that was passed we have lost twelve millions of our people; our country has been ravished and ravaged; we have had the emigrant shin and the famine and the prison cell and the scaffold all through that one hundred and twenty years, because you have had the English Army in occupation here; and by your vote are you going to keep the English Army in occupation here, because that is what it means? Are you going to put out the English Army, the English tax-gatherer, the English West Britons; to build yourself up as a nation again and stand as this Treaty gives you power to stand—on equality with the other nations once again—and get your fair name in the world? Or are you going back, without hope of success in this generation at least, to the position in which we were until the heroism and capacity of these young men made England offer terms in July last? That is what you have got to decide; and I say that any man who is going to ask the young men of Ireland to go out again, and fight and suffer as before, has got to tell them where they are going (applause). Here, a few days ago, reference was made to Michael Collins and to the young men who would follow him to hell. Well, I know young men who went through hell with him; and because they went through hell with him you are here this evening; and this assembly would not be here, and we would not be discussing these terms with England, unless the army—unless these young men had gone through hell with Michael Collins. Well, so far as my strength and voice and vote are concerned, I will not let my countrymen be led on a false track; I believe they will be led on a false track if we reject this Treaty; I believe they will be led on a straight track if we accept this Treaty. My colleagues and I have tried to meet the difficulties in the way; we have tried to get a united Dáil. Michael Collins made a suggestion. I regret that suggestion was not adopted; I believe we could have kept united if that suggestion were adopted; and if people had difficulties in their minds over what they considered principles I believe these difficulties could have been solved. I regret that that suggestion was not accepted; I regret it because I believe we could honourably have peace on this.
PRESIDENT DE VALERA: What is it?
MR. GRIFFITH: Mr. Collins' suggestion that you had before you recently.
PRESIDENT DE VALERA: Please read it so that we may all know it.
MR. M. COLLINS: It was in the Press.
PRESIDENT DE VALERA: That we should let this Treaty pass and hold the views we had. What would it mean for Ireland?
MR. GRIFFITH: I do not mind reading it if President de Valera wishes.
PRESIDENT DE VALERA: I do not want to ask anybody to break any confidence. I simply want to know if a suggestion was made by Mr. Collins, if it was in the Press?
MR. GRIFFITH: What I thought you wished me to read was the decision the Committee came to the other night.
PRESIDENT DE VALERA: Anything that should go to the Irish people let it go. Please let us hear the whole thing now. I did everything I did for unity. If there is anything else read it out then, if it is agreeable.
MR. SEAN T. O'KELLY: I am not agreeable.
MR. GRIFFITH: Very well. I am not going to read any document so.
MR. J.J. O'KELLY: What about Mr. Collins' offer?
MR. M. COLLINS: It was in the public Press.
MR. GRIFFITH: Well, I regret, therefore, that we cannot go into that. I regret we are not going to have unity; but there is true unity and false unity. I will not sacrifice the Irish nation on the altar of false unity; I will not agree, in order to preserve the semblance of unity in this Dáil, that we should flout the people of this country; I will not agree that the people of Ireland should be sacrificed on a formula.
PRESIDENT DE VALERA: Hear, hear.
MR. GRIFFITH: We had much talk of principles, of honour, and of virtue here. It seemed to me all on one side; we on this side, had lost all the effulgence of virtue that emblazoned the faces of the people on the opposite side. Well, I have some principles; the principle that I have stood on all my life is the principle of Ireland for the Irish people (hear, hear). If I can get that with a Republic I will have a Republic; if I can get that with a monarchy I will have a monarchy. I will not sacrifice my country for a form of government. I stand in this exactly where every leader of the Irish nation stood from the time of O'Neill to Patrick Sarsfield. Owen Roe O'Neill said: “I do not care whether the King of England is King of Ireland so long as the people of Ireland are free.” I do not care whether the King of England or the symbol of the Crown be in Ireland so long as the people of Ireland are free to shape their own destinies. We have the means to do that by this Treaty; we have not the means otherwise. I say now to the people of Ireland that it is their right to see that this Treaty is carried into operation, when they get, for the first time in seven centuries, a chance to live their lives in their own country and take their place amongst the nations of Europe (applause).
PRESIDENT DE VALERA: Before you take a vote I want to enter my last protest—that document will rise in judgment against the men who say there is only a shadow of difference——
MR. MILROY: Yes, that's all.
PRESIDENT DE VALERA: If every thing is in this Treaty that seemed to be covered by it—but it is not—I say that the Irish nation will judge you who have brought this Treaty—if it is approved they will judge you by comparing what you got for the Irish people out of it with the terms of an explicit document where there is nothing implied but everything on the face of it. It is the same position exactly as in the case of Grattan and Flood; and I suppose the Irish Volunteers are to be disbanded next.
MR. M. COLLINS: Let the Irish nation judge us now and for future years.
THE SPEAKER: We will take a vote now in the usual way by calling the roll. The vote is on the motion by the Minister for Foreign Affairs that Dáil Eireann approves of the Treaty.
THE CLERK then proceeded to call the roll.
MR. M. COLLINS (on being called for the second constituency): The people on the other side need not have objected. I have already voted.
THE SPEAKER (on being called): I can only give a casting vote.
MR. GRIFFITH (on being called for the second constituency): I wish to register my protest against any constituency being disfranchised. I understand that is your ruling. There are five members here who represent two constituencies each—the President and four other members. Those constituencies that the five of us represent are disfranchised.
THE SPEAKER: The question of what happens the constituency is not the question [345] for me. I can only rule that each Deputy present shall vote once.
MR. SEAN MILROY: I wish to enter my protest against the County Tyrone being disfranchised.
PRESIDENT DE VALERA (at the conclusion of the Roll call): I claim the right to speak first after the figures are announced.
MR. M. COLLINS: I want to make a statement, too.
THE SPEAKER: The result of the poll is sixty-four for approval and fifty-seven against. That is a majority of seven in favour of approval of the Treaty.
FOR:
Mícheál O Coileáin
Art O Gríobhtha
Seán Mac Giolla Ríogh
Pól O Geallagáin
Liam T. Mac Cosgaír
Gearóid O Súileabháin
Pádraig O Braonáin
Seán O Lidia
Seán O hAodha
Pádraig O Caoimh
Seán Mac Héil
Seosamh Mac Suibhne
Peadar S. Mac an Bháird
Dr. S. Mac Fhionnlaoigh
P.S. Mac Ualghairg
Próinsias Laighléis
S. Ghabháin Uí Dhubhthaigh
Deasmhumhain Mac Gearailt
Seumas Mac Doirim
Seumas O Duibhir
Pádraic O Máille
Seoirse Mac Niocaill
P.S. O hOgáin
An t-Oll. S. O Faoilleacháin
Piaras Béaslaí
Fionán O Loingsigh
S. O Cruadhlaoich
Riobárd Bartún
Criostóir O Broin
Seumas O Dóláin
Aindriú O Láimhín
Tomás Mac Artúir
Dr. Pádraig Mac Artáin
Caoimhghín O hUigín
Seosamh O Loingsigh
Próinsias Bulfin
Dr. Risteárd O hAodha
Liam O hAodha
Seosamh Mac Aonghusa
Seán Mac Eoin
Lorcán O Roibín
Eamon O Dúgáin
Peadar O hAodha
Seumas O Murchadha
Saerbhreathach Mac Cionaith
Seosamh Mac Giolla Bhrighde
Liam Mac Sioghuird
Domhnall O Ruairc
Earnán de Blaghd
Eoin O Dubhthaigh
Alasdar Mac Cába
Tomás O Domhnaill
Seumas de Búrea
Dr. V. de Faoite
Risteárd Mac Fheorais
Seán Mac Gadhra
Mícheál Mac Stáin
Risteárd O Maolchatha
Seosamh Mag Craith
Pilib Mac Cosgair
Domhnall Mac Cárthaigh
Liam de Róiste
Seumas Breathnach
Mícheál O hAodha

AGAINST:
Seumas O Lonnáin
Eamon Aidhleart
Eamon de Valera
Brian O hUigín
Seán Mac Suibhne
Seán O Maoláin
Domhnall O Corcora
Seán O Nualláin
Tomás O Fiadhchara
Seumas Mac Gearailt
Dáithí Ceannt
Seosamh O Dochartaigh
S. O Flaithbheartaigh
Bean an Phiarsaigh
Seán O Mathghamhna
Liam O Maoilíosa
Dr. Brian de Cíosóg
Próinsias O Fathaigh
Aibhistín de Stac
Conchubhar O Coileáin
Eamon de Róiste
P. S. O Cathail
Tomás O Donnchú
Art O Conchubhair
Domhnall O Buachalla
E. Childers
Seoirse Pluingceud
Bean Mhíchíl Ui Cheallacháin
M. P. Colivet
Seán O Ceallaigh
Dr. O Cruadhlaoich
[346] Tomás O Deirg
P. S. O Ruthléis
Enrí O Beoláin
Tomás Maguidhir
Seán Mac an tSaoi
Dr. P. O Fearáin
Seumas O Daimhín
Próinsias Mac Cárthaigh
Seosamh Mac Donnchadha
P. S. O Maoldomhnaigh
P. S. O Broin
Cathal Brugha
Eamon O Deaghaidh
Seumas Mac Roibín
Dr. Seumas O Riain
Seán Etchingham
Seumas O Dubhghaill
Seán T. O Ceallaigh
Pilib O Seanacháin
Bean an Chléirigh
Constans de Markievicz
Cathal O Murchadha
Máire Nic Shuibhne
Domhnall O Ceallacháin
Dr. Eithne Inglis
An t-Oll. W.F.P. Stockley
PRESIDENT DE VALERA: It will, of course, be my duty to resign my office as Chief Executive. I do not know that I should do it just now.
MR. M. COLLINS: No.
PRESIDENT DE VALERA: There is one thing I want to say—I want it to go to the country and to the world, and it is this: the Irish people established a Republic. This is simply approval of a certain resolution. The Republic can only be disestablished by the Irish people. Therefore, until such time as the Irish people in regular manner disestablish it, this Republic goes on. Whatever arrangements are made this is the supreme sovereign body in the nation; this is the body to which the nation looks for its supreme Government, and it must remain that—no matter who is the Executive—it must remain that until the Irish people have disestablished it.
MR. M. COLLINS: I ask your permission to make a statement. I do not regard the passing of this thing as being any kind of triumph over the other side. I will do my best in the future, as I have done in the past, for the nation. What I have to say now is, whether there is something contentious about the Republic—about the Government in being—or not, that we should unite on this: that we will all do our best to preserve the public safety (hear, hear).
PRESIDENT DE VALERA: Hear, hear.
MR. M. COLLINS: Now, in all countries in times of change—when countries are passing from peace to war or war to peace—they have had their most trying times on an occasion like this. Whether we are right or whether we are wrong in the view of future generations there is this: that we now are entitled to a chance; all the responsibility will fall upon us of taking over the machinery of government from the enemy. In times of change like that, when countries change from peace to war or war to peace, there are always elements that make for disorder and that make for chaos. That is as true of Ireland as of any other country; for in that respect all countries are the same. Now, what I suggest is that—I suppose we could regard it like this—that we are a kind of a majority party and that the others are a minority party; that is all I regard it as at present; and upon us, I suppose, will be the responsibility of proving our mark, to borrow a term from our President. Well, if we could form some kind of joint Committee to carry on— for carrying through the arrangements one way or another—I think that is what we ought to do. Now, I only want to say this to the people who are against us—and there are good people against us —so far as I am concerned this is not a question of politics, nor never has been. I make the promise publicly to the Irish nation that I will do my best, and though some people here have said hard things of me—I would not stand things like that said about the other side—I have just as high a regard for some of them, and am prepared to do as much for them, now as always. The President knows how I tried to do my best for him.
PRESIDENT DE VALERA: Hear, hear.
MR. M. COLLINS: Well, he has exactly the same position in my heart now as he always had (applause).
MISS M. MACSWINEY: I claim my right, before matters go any further, to register my protest, because I look upon [347] this act to-night worse than I look upon the Act of Castlereagh. I, for one, will have neither hand, act, nor part in helping the Irish Free State to carry this nation of ours, this glorious nation that has been betrayed here to-night, into the British Empire—either with or without your hands up. I maintain here now that this is the grossest act of betrayal that Ireland ever endured. I know some of you have done it from good motives; soldiers have done it to get a gun, God help them! Others, because they thought it best in some other way. I do not want to say a word that would prevent them from coming back to their Mother Republic; but I register my protest, and not one bit of help that we can give will we give them. The speech we have heard sounded very beautiful—as the late Minister of Finance can do it; he has played up to the gallery in this thing, but I tell you it may sound very beautiful but it will not do. Ireland stands on her Republican Government and that Republican Government cannot touch the pitch of the Free State without being fouled; and here and now I call on all true Republicans; we all want to protect the public safety; it is our side that will do its best to protect the public safety. We want no such terrible troubles in the country as faction fights; we can never descend to the faction fights of former days; we have established a Government, and we will have to protect it. Therefore, let there be no misunderstanding, no soft talk, no ráiméis at this last moment of the betrayal of our country; no soft talk about union; you cannot unite a spiritual Irish Republic and a betrayal worse than Castlereagh's, because it was done for the Irish nation.